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 Post subject: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:33 am 
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I hope you consider THIS at least vaguely on-topic. Anyone want to throw down about the credit crunch? I just wanted to gague the general opinion of it from within HMC...how it's affected you, what you've seen, what you think, what your teachers, professors, or peers have said...

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:30 am 
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no comment

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:53 pm 
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@ video:
moronperson920 wrote:
no comment


@ topic:
Havent been effected all that much personally. I was able to get enough financial aid so I didnt have to take out a loan this year and still have some cash to spare. But I dont have the expenses of a normal person my age - I dont own a car, I'm not renting an apartment or anything, dont have to buy food, etc. As Im sure moronperson would tell you if he could act serious once in a while, living in a resort town we havent been effected all that much by the economy. The average home price is still $900,000 (no, i didnt add an extra zero), its just that real estate has slowed down. My mom got layed off from her job, but she was already in the process of shifting over to being self-employed full time.

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:27 am 
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ZOMG SRS TIEMZ :O

Hellblazer wrote:
As Im sure moronperson would tell you if he could act serious once in a while, living in a resort town we havent been effected all that much by the economy.


actually youre wrong. since when you were here you were in the tech industry, it didnt effect you because it has little effect from tourism. but in the restaurant industry, it has had effects. if you look in the paper there are much less jobs being offered. when i went back to work over xmas break, they didnt need me because its been abnormally slow and they just didnt have room for me. so i got a temporary job as a prep cook at a different restaurant that had recently lost 1 employee from suicide, 2 more from being hospitalized, and were about to lose their main prep cook because he was moving. in the week i was there i saw about 15 people go in to apply for a job, and that was only on the 2 days that i stayed there past 3pm. so in fact, we are getting affected.

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Last edited by moronperson920 on Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:35 pm 
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Yes, however, in a comparison, our little town is doing just fine. Yes, there has been job loss, but really its just a slap in the face if you think about it. Our economy was bloated during the real estate boom and got too large for our own good. IMO, the nationwide economic collapse was just a catalyst to get us out of our little fantasy world. We're still getting out of it. I believe that if it werent for the nationwide collapse, we'd still be growing until we pop the balloon. Then we'd be in a shithole. The only thing thats happened is a slowdown, not a collapse.

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:02 pm 
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yeah, were not getting raped without lube, but we are getting taken into a dark alley and mugged stil (awesome metaphor :thumb: )

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:19 pm 
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You know, I never thought it would affect me personally, but AZ is in a budget crisis right now and has been for several months. The state universities have already taken a big funding hit and they're talking about taking another in a futile attempt at balancing the budget. I've already lost my reclassification that was supposed to happen this month (i.e. raise/job title change) and we've been on a hiring/spending freeze for months. Now the president is sending out notices that unpaid furloughs and other drastic measures may be required to keep the university afloat. It sounds like good times ahead. :\

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:50 am 
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No job here; I'm a lazy fucker.

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:39 am 
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This whole deal is actually effecting me more then the others it seems.
First i may lose my job at the school since sales tax revenue is down so there isnt as much money as projected.
Second, If i do keep my job it will probibly be pretty shitty b/c we just redid the entire school district with nortel phones, switches (the big 48 port kind) and wireless AP's and Nortel filed for bankrupcy on wednesday.
Third, i cant spend as much money to have fun b/c my father beleaves i need to save it more.
Fourth, techhnology development and jobs are slowing down drasticly. Technology is the first thing people give up in a recession.
Ya thats about it i think

@hellblazer
Steamboat is being effected more then you think. Prices on houses are dropping pretty fast, but they are still high.
lots of people cant afford to be here anymore so the town is even more turists then ever before
We just put that behind us because we are the "Drink and Be Merry" town of colorado. (add cheers emot here)


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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Well i blame you americans. :)

well i think that its getting worse becuase of the media worrying people and then thats effecting the market.

but yea my Dad works at jag and they have cut over time, they have been put to minium wage, they are cuttting 1300 jobs as well as already cutting 800.

so yea im shitting it :/

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:52 am 
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My turn.

I am hoping (wildly) that by the dissemination and advancement of my current compiled information regarding the crisis, I can help people better understand just what exactly's going on, and it logically follows that if one knows the problem, one can help fix it. One caveat, some of this will sound somewhat foreign (despite my attempts at simplification) without a general knowledge of economics, sociocultural politics, finance, and international business. I'm also still not very certain about it, as my compiled info in and unto itself isn't really complete...a lot of it is conjecture and work-in-progress, based on some uni lectures, news reports, and a Wiki article or two.

Oh and one other thing, I'm no expert on this stuff. Feel free to correct me or point out anomalies as you see fit.

A Wooden Fireworks Factory

Anyways...a lot of what caused this crisis can be traced to the extremely rapid economic growth of China and other East Asian countries. This meant that the world had a lot of cash liquidity (i.e. buildings and other assets that CAN be quickly converted to cash) floating around, coupled with domestic saving and large foreign exchange reserves. The banks that controlled this cash liquidity decided to spend it in sub-prime mortgages (I'm sure you've heard it a lot, but this basically translates into lending money to people who may not pay you back). And because it became so easy to come by credit, houses were valued at much more than they should've been worth, since it suddenly became that much easier to pay for it.

For the average citizen everywhere, all this meant that money was suddenly easier to come by. Nobody cared about how much exactly they had to pay back in the future, what mattered was the money they got right now by asking banks. Additionally, this meant that markets around the globe were getting "richer" faster than the government could keep up, and governments failed to erect monetary policies meant to curtail this kind of rampant growth.

Additionally, this meant a lot of people (banks/lending institutions/etc) investing in construction projects, especially in housing and buildings.

Firestarter

A lot of this started coming down when the banks began to ask for the loans to be repaid, as per their contracts, loans that people simply couldn't repay. The housing market, which saw the most growth from the bubble, also was hit the hardest, as the economy reached a point where there were too many houses and not enough buyers, meaning the they had to offer them at ever-cheaper rates to stay competitive. Worse, people who couldn't pay back their debts had their houses foreclosed (taken away, repossessed) as a result, which simply put even more houses onto the market and drove their costs down even further. You can imagine the same thing happening in different markets and industries.

Fallout

All this meant that banks suddenly found themselves with very little money and lots of debt to pay off. Quite a few of them were forced to close. In the UK, Northern Rock, a major UK banking institution, applied for help from the Bank of England (equivalent to the Federal Reserve/FDIC in practice) and was subsequently bailed out. (As an aside, this meant the first bank run in the UK since the Great Depression, where people lined up outside the doors to withdraw their money).

Those banks and institutions that DID survive without being sunk became much more concerned about lending money out, and rightfully so. They needed to save money to re-capitalise, and couldn't afford further losses. The sinking of major institutions like Northern Rock in the UK, WaMu in the US, and the Lehman Brothers, also meant that banks were reticent to loan to each other, since the loss of those institutions signaled that even large banks could go down.

Again, to the average Joe, this meant that credit (loans, mortgages, etc) became much harder to come by, as people wouldn't be willing to loan out anymore. The growth of small businesses, the drivers of any economy, were hampered by a severe lack of available credit, and as expected, the economy took a nosedive.

Who's to blame?

It's very easy to point fingers in today's world; after all, it's everyone's fault BUT mine. But who's to blame, really? The answer seems to be everyone, and no-one at the same time. Should we blame China for growing? A silly presumption if any; growth is the next natural step. China was a country that had the land, capital, and through foreign investment, the money necessary to start its growth. This could have been a good thing too.

The blame, then, seems to lie in what people decided to DO with the money earned from this. But how are the banks really to blame for all of this? Again, the people benefitting from the bad loans didn't care if they were unstable, they cared about the money coming into their coffers too much to worry about the future. The banks didn't, or maybe couldn't care about who they were lending to. From the point of a bank, if you didn't give money out like this, you lost customers to competing banks that DID, and they got stronger at your expense.

Government seems to be the next person in line for the blame, then. After all, the government is supposed to stop the banks from making these irrational decisions, as the government is the all-seeing eye, the commander who can see the entire battlefield while the bank is merely the footsoldier with a ground-level view. However, economics are ever-shifting and complex. A lot of it is predicted and not foreseen by its very nature. It's akin to putting a general in a hot-air balloon above a battle in New York and giving him orders to command troops in San Francisco based upon what he sees below; try as he might, he will never ever have a complete picture of everything, and must make judgements based on what he sees.

(As an aside, I'm relieved nobody ran around screaming about how this is all Bush's fault. Not that I commend Bush in every aspect of his career, but the thing is, he has little, if any, direct control over governmental fiscal policy, and transitively, the economy…it's the duty of the financial arm of the government, while Bush is the tip of the administrative arm. The more astute in history will have noted that the same thing happened during the Great Depression...Hoover shouldered most of the blame for the depression, and conversely, Clinton rode in on the coattails of the economy's success back in the 90's. Like today, none of them have had any real control over the economy.)

--

Okay, I'm exhausted. Hopefully someone'll have learned something from this...

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:46 pm 
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me15ter i think for the first time, i have read a post longer than 10 lines.
and im glad :)

that made total sence, you should run for prime mister :)

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:11 am 
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He could be the Prime Me15ter. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:48 am 
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lol pun

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 Post subject: Re: Credit Crunch! ZOMG!
PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:05 am 
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